Talk:Al-Manshiyya, Tulkarm

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Yet another Manshiyya identification problem

To editor Huldra: To editor Onceinawhile: To editor Arminden: The coordinates and grid position given in the article do not agree. Namely, we have:

A: |32|26|57|N|34|59|57|E| which corresponds to 150/206
B: 144/200 which corresponds to |32|23|40|N|34|56|5|E|

They are about 8km apart. Looking at maps, position A has "Kh. el Manshiya", not shown as a village. Position B has another "Kh. el Manshiya", this time shown as a village. The context, especially Khalidi and the proximity of Givat Haim, indicates that B is what this article is about. I'll fix the coordinates.

I'm not really confident that we have all our Manshiyyas sorted out. Do we need a mini-workshop on that? Zero^talk 12:20, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have been trying to find out what the word means. In PEF I can only see an etymology for Iraq al-Manshiyya (Palmer, 1881, p. 365) which calls it the cliff of the place of growth (where Iraq = cliff / escarpment / cave). It would make sense for Manshiyya to be 'place of growth', as I don't believe any of our Al-Manshiyyas have much history prior to the 19th century. I would like to confirm this.

On another topic, I am not sure if Manshiya (Jaffa) is really the commonname here.

Onceinawhile (talk) 14:42, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally, Once, this means the map sequence is wrong. I'll send you the right one when I remember how to do it. Zero^talk 12:24, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To editor Onceinawhile: Did you get my mail of a few days ago? Zero^talk 03:39, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Zero0000: sorry no I didn't and I haven't been able to access my email for the last few days. Will be able to access it in a couple of days' time, so will try to remember. Onceinawhile (talk) 04:06, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The discussion re. the meaning of Manshiya and how best to spell it is stretched over 3 discussion pages:

Talk:Al-Manshiyya, Tiberias#This article is wrong A to Z; consider deletion
this one
Talk:Manshiya, Jaffa

This doesn't help with reaching a concerted decision. Either we move it all to one place, or at least we should interlink & be aware of the other 2 pages. Arminden (talk) 20:31, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't our task to decide what the meaning is. As for spellings, we should follow the sources and make a reasonable choice when the sources differ. Zero^talk 11:56, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what you mean by "task". The etymology of place-names is a common feature in articles concerned with geographical places, as it should be. The SWP dealt with it, other encyclopedias do - what's your point? Also, every time you have a clear meaning, this reflects on the history and self-identification of the place and its inhabitants. So quite important! The spelling - we agree. It doesn't need to be uniform, names are names and we follow the sources. However, a place like Manshiya, Jaffa, is likely to be mentioned hundred of times in English-language sources, while a hamlet like Manshiy(y)a, Tiberias, only gets half a dozen mentions, maybe each of them different, so what do you go by? Somebody decided to go with double-y with all but the Jaffa toponym, and I don't really know why, what this -iyy centipede is supposed to bring. Arminden (talk) 17:31, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't clear. If we have a good source for what "manshiya" means, we can use it. However, once we start digging into Arabic roots and drawing our own conclusions, we are into OR territory and we can't use it. Zero^talk 00:42, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]